国会AI协会主席皮特·奥尔森和杰里·麦克纳尼就中国的AI风险向9000减半

机器遇见世界的插曲集锦(Episode Highlights from Machine Meets World)

This week’s guests are the co-chairs of the Congressional Artificial Intelligence Caucus, Congressman Pete Olson (R-TX) and Congressman Jerry McNerney (D-CA).

本周的来宾是国会人工智能核心小组，国会议员皮特·奥尔森(R-TX)和国会议员杰里·麦克纳尼(D-CA)的联席主席。

中国的人工智能愿望 (China’s AI Aspirations)

Congressman Olson: [China’s] 2030 AI plan spends $141 billion on AI. We spent just a small amount of that on AI. And so just by…their whole society, how they operate, they can do things we can’t do. But we can’t just sit back and watch it happen because we can’t let China take the lead in this because it will be detrimental to the world’s economy if they run it. And AI is going to run the economy in the future.

国会议员奥尔森(Olson)： [中国的2030年人工智能计划在人工智能上花费了1,410亿美元。 我们在AI上只花了很少的钱。 因此，仅通过……整个社会，他们的运作方式，他们就能做我们做不到的事情。 但是我们不能只是坐下来观察它的发生，因为我们不能让中国率先这样做，因为如果他们这样做会损害世界经济。 人工智能将在未来推动经济发展。

Congressman McNerney: If we come out ahead, our values will be incorporated in what the world sees in artificial intelligence. If China comes out ahead, then their lack of concern of privacy and individual rights will be forefront in artificial intelligence and in the world economy.

国会议员McNerney：如果我们领先一步，我们的价值观将融入到人工智能世界中。 如果中国走在前列，那么他们对隐私和个人权利的关注将在人工智能和世界经济中处于最前沿。

解决数据偏差 (Addressing Data Bias)

Congressman McNerney: There need to be some standards and a way to classify data so that we know what’s going in and training these algorithms. The algorithms themselves may need to be classified as well so that at least we know what’s going into this data and these training programs and how to fix it if it starts showing problems.

国会议员McNerney：需要有一些标准和一种对数据进行分类的方法，以便我们知道要进行的工作并对这些算法进行培训。 还可能需要对算法本身进行分类，以便至少我们知道该数据和这些训练程序的内容，以及如果开始出现问题时如何解决。

2001年的AI恐惧：太空漫游 (An AI Fear from 2001: A Space Odyssey)

Congressman Olson: …there was a robot, an AI robot in this space station named HAL. He was just a red light. And HAL got this self-survival instinct as a computer and learned — wanted to kill all the astronauts. That can’t happen with AI, it’s just a program.

国会议员奥尔森： …在这个空间站中有一个机器人，一个AI机器人，名为HAL。 他只是一个红灯。 哈尔(HAL)通过计算机获得了这种自我生存的本能，并学会了-想杀死所有宇航员。 AI不可能做到这一点，它只是一个程序。

But to get a lot of people my age — it’s smart people [who] have really got it hard against AI like Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, and both have said, “apocalypse, end of society.” I appreciate that…but it’s fear.

但是要吸引很多人，这是聪明的人，他们真的很难对付AI，例如史蒂芬·霍金，埃隆·马斯克，他们都说：“启示录，社会的终结。” 我对此表示赞赏……但这是恐惧。

Watch the show above. You can also hear Machine Meets World as a podcast, join the email list, and contact the show.

观看上面的节目。 您还可以通过播客收听“机器遇见世界”，加入电子邮件列表，并联系演出。

音频+笔录(Audio + Transcript)

James Kotecki:This is Machine Meets World, Infinia ML’s ongoing conversation about artificial intelligence. I am James Kotecki, joined today by not one, but two very special guests. Congressman Pete Olson is a Republican from Texas, Congressman Jerry McNerney is a Democrat from California. Together they are the co-chairs of the Congressional AI Caucus. Gentlemen, welcome to you both.

詹姆斯·科特奇(James Kotecki)：这是《机器相遇世界》，这是Infinia ML正在进行的有关人工智能的对话。 我是詹姆斯·科特奇(James Kotecki)，今天不是一位嘉宾加入，而是两位非常特别的嘉宾。 国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)是来自德克萨斯州的共和党人，国会议员杰里·麦克纳尼(Jerry McNerney)是来自加利福尼亚州的民主党人。 他们在一起是国会AI核心小组的联合主席。 先生们，欢迎你们俩。

Congressman Pete Olson:Thank you so much for having us, appreciate it.

国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)：非常感谢您拥有我们，谢谢。

Congressman Jerry McNerney:Yeah, me too. It’s great to be able to talk about artificial intelligence.

众议员杰里·麦克纳尼(Jerry McNerney)：是的，我也是。 能够谈论人工智能真是太好了。

James Kotecki:Congressman Olson, I think you’ve been on the caucus longer, so we’ll start with you. What is the Congressional AI Caucus? What are you thinking about and doing?

詹姆斯·科特奇(James Kotecki)：议员奥尔森(Olson)，我想您已经参加了更长的讨论，所以我们从您开始。 什么是国会AI核心小组？ 您在想什么，在做什么？

Congressman Pete Olson:It came about the last Congress with a predecessor from Maryland, Mr. Delaney. And John was a force behind this. He asked me to join to make it bipartisan and I said “Heck yes,” because AI is our future. The world’s going to AI. And John left to run for the White House. And so I said, “Who can we get that’s a star, a PhD scientist, some smart guy who wants help AI be advanced in DC.” And that came up [inaudible 00:02:07] Congress, Jerry McNerney. And he’s been a great member of Congress, not just for this issue, but the issues back home in California. Could not be more thrilled to have Jerry as our co-chair.

国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)：上届国会召开之前，马里兰州的前任德拉尼(Delaney)先生就出席了会议。 约翰是这背后的力量。 他要求我加入，使其成为两党联盟，我说“哎呀，是的，因为人工智能是我们的未来”。 世界将走向人工智能。 约翰离开去竞选白宫。 因此，我说：“谁能得到这颗星星，一位博士学位科学家，一些聪明的家伙，他们希望帮助AI在DC领域得到发展。” 当时[听不清00:02:07]国会，杰里·麦克纳尼。 他一直是国会的杰出成员，不仅在这个问题上，而且在加州的这个问题上也是如此。 能够邀请Jerry担任我们的联合主席，这真是令人激动。

Congressman Jerry McNerney:I have to thank Pete for his, just being a solid member of Congress that I can work with, it’s great to have bipartisan work and Pete exemplifies that and has since I’ve known him. So thanks for that, and for the compliments there, Pete. The United States government needs to get involved in artificial intelligence. We have all these agencies, they need expertise. My bill, AI in Government Act , just passed the house floor yesterday with a unanimous vote. Thank you. So we’re going to be looking to the Senate and then the president to sign that this year so that we can staff up artificial intelligence expertise within the GSA to lend that expertise to the government, to the different agencies that need it.

国会议员杰里·麦克纳尼(Jerry McNerney)：我必须感谢皮特(Pete)的支持，他是我可以与之合作的可靠国会议员，两党的工作真是太好了，皮特(Pete)就是一个很好的例子，并且自从我认识他以来就一直如此。 因此，感谢彼得，并感谢那里的赞美。 美国政府需要参与人工智能。 我们拥有所有这些机构，他们需要专业知识。 我的法案，即《政府法》中的AI，昨天以一致投票通过了众议院。 谢谢。 因此，我们将在今年争取参议院和总统签署该协议，以便我们可以在GSA内配备人工智能专业知识，以将该专业知识提供给政府以及需要它的不同机构。

Congressman Pete Olson:In terms of getting our federal government involved in AI, Jerry and I are onboard with the White House, with any department, we’ve got to get this thing done because, oh, by the way, other nations are getting way ahead of us like China, like Russia, mostly those two.

国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)：就让我们的联邦政府参与AI而言，我和杰里(Jerry)和白宫(White House)以及任何部门都已加入，我们必须把这件事做好，因为，哦，顺便说一下，其他国家正在像中国，俄罗斯一样，我们这两个国家遥遥领先。

James Kotecki:There’s a fear that China is out competing us when it comes to AI, that they’re able to maybe get data in different ways that wouldn’t pass ethical muster here in the United States, but that they’re able to use it for massive AI projects in China. So Congressman Olson, what do you and your colleagues on the caucus think about this and what are you trying to do about it?

詹姆斯·科特奇基(James Kotecki)：有人担心中国在AI方面正在与我们竞争，他们可能会以不同的方式获取数据，而这在美国没有道德标准，但他们能够将其用于中国的大型AI项目。 那么，国会议员奥尔森，您和您在小组会议上的同事对此有何看法，您打算如何做？

Congressman Pete Olson:Well, it’s scary because they’re working very hard to take the lead in the world on AI. And that’s just a fact. For example, their 2030 AI plan spends $141 billion on AI. We spent just a small amount of that on AI. And so just by, as you mentioned, James, their whole society, how they operate, they can do things we can’t do. But that doesn’t mean we can’t — we can’t just sit back and watch it happen. Because we can’t let China take the lead in this because it will be detrimental to the world’s economy if they run it. And AI is going to run the economy in the future.

国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)：好吧，这很可怕，因为他们正在努力在AI领域处于世界领先地位。 那只是事实。 例如，他们的2030年AI计划在AI上花费1410亿美元。 我们在AI上只花了很少的钱。 因此，就像您提到的，詹姆斯，整个社会，他们的运作方式，他们就能做我们做不到的事情。 但这并不意味着我们不能-我们不能只是坐下来观察它的发生。 因为我们不能让中国率先这样做，因为如果他们经营下去，它将对世界经济有害。 人工智能将在未来推动经济发展。

Congressman Jerry McNerney:China has an advantage, they have a massive data pool. So many people are connected and there’s no privacy rules. So they’re turning in this massive amount of data, which is what fuels AI advancement. So they have that. We have tremendous institutions like Stanford and the Rice Institution, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, all of these tremendous academic — industry is getting involved. And so I think we are in a position to compete on different terms and we want to make sure that we come out ahead because if we come out ahead, our values will be incorporated in what the world sees in artificial intelligence. If China comes out ahead, then their lack of concern of privacy and individual rights will be forefront in artificial intelligence and in the world economy. So it is important for us to take a lead and to maintain that lead.

国会议员杰里·麦克纳尼(Jerry McNerney)：中国有一个优势，他们拥有庞大的数据池。 如此众多的人连接在一起，并且没有隐私规则。 因此，他们要提交大量的数据，这正是推动AI发展的因素。 所以他们有。 我们拥有斯坦福大学，赖斯研究所，麻省理工学院等庞大的机构，所有这些伟大的学术机构都在参与其中。 因此，我认为我们有能力在不同的条件下竞争，我们希望确保我们领先于世界，因为如果我们领先于我们，我们的价值观将融入到人工智能领域。 如果中国走在前列，那么他们对隐私和个人权利的关注将在人工智能和世界经济中处于最前沿。 因此，对我们而言，保持领先地位很重要。

Congressman Pete Olson:And James, Jerry and I both know Mr. Putin from Russia, he was quoted as saying, “The nation that leads in AI will rule the world.” Black and white. If you control AI, as I mentioned, you control the world, the economy of the world, and that’s why with my good friend from California, we’re stepping out to make sure DC gets on the train before it leaves the station.

国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)：还有詹姆斯，杰里和我都认识俄罗斯的普京先生，他的话是：“领导人工智能的国家将统治世界。” 黑和白。 正如我所提到的，如果您控制着AI，那么您就可以控制世界，世界的经济，这就是为什么与我来自加利福尼亚的好朋友一起，我们将努力确保DC在离开车站之前就进入火车。

James Kotecki:Let’s talk about some of those ethical considerations because that is a big fear and concern that people have. Are there additional pieces of legislation and/or regulation that you see coming down the pike, maybe not this Congress, but in the years to come, that could be kind of major shifts in the way that we set down benchmarks for AI ethics?

詹姆斯·科特奇(James Kotecki)：让我们谈谈其中的一些道德考量，因为这是人们的最大恐惧和关注。 您是否还看到其他一些立法和/或法规，也许不是本届国会，但是在未来几年中，这可能是我们设定AI伦理基准的方式的重大转变？

Congressman Pete Olson:Well, we have to go forward beyond what we’re doing this Congress, we have to embrace, like you said, some of the challenges with bias, ethics. And AI is a much greater field — if we don’t address those biases and try to get through them and eliminate them while making these programs — these are programs by the way — we saw biases. And so Jerry and I are working hard to make sure we recognize that, but that’s probably something to be dealt with in the future because right now our mission is: DC, wake up. Wake up, wake up, wake up.

国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)：嗯，我们必须超越本届国会的工作范围，我们必须像您所说的那样，接受一些带有偏见，道德规范的挑战。 人工智能是一个更大的领域-如果我们不解决这些偏见并尝试克服这些偏见并在制作这些程序时消除它们-顺便说一下，这些程序-我们看到了偏见。 因此，杰里和我正在努力确保我们认识到这一点，但这可能是将来要处理的事情，因为现在我们的任务是：DC，醒来。 醒来，醒来，醒来。

Congressman Jerry McNerney:What I worry about with bias is the data that comes in. All of it’s going to have some bias as Pete mentioned. So there needs to be some standards and a way to classify data so that we know what’s going in and training these algorithms. The algorithms themselves may need to be classified as well so that at least we know what’s going into this data and these training programs and how to fix it if it starts showing problems. So that’s, I think, a really important first step that we’re going to have to take: establishing standards and data centers that understand how to classify the data.

国会议员杰里·麦克纳尼(Jerry McNerney)：我担心带有偏见的是输入的数据。正如皮特所说，所有这些都会有一定的偏见。 因此，需要有一些标准和一种对数据进行分类的方法，以使我们了解正在研究的内容并训练这些算法。 还可能需要对算法本身进行分类，以便至少我们知道该数据和这些训练程序的内容，以及如果开始出现问题时如何解决。 因此，我认为这是我们必须采取的非常重要的第一步：建立了解如何对数据进行分类的标准和数据中心。

James Kotecki:Congressman Olson, you said that your mission is to wake up DC in the short term to the reality of artificial intelligence. Before we started this interview officially, we were chatting about fear being a driver that some people have. What do you think the average person in government, in Congress, if they’re not involved in the AI caucus, thinks about AI? Where are people starting from in your perspective?

詹姆斯·科特奇(James Kotecki)：议员奥尔森(Olson)，您说过，您的任务是在短期内唤醒直流电，以了解人工智能的现实。 在我们正式开始面试之前，我们在谈论害怕成为某些人的司机。 您如何看待政府中的国会普通议员，如果他们不参与AI小组讨论，会如何看待AI？ 从您的角度出发，人们从哪里开始？

Congressman Pete Olson:Well they think it’s just something in the future. Something from some movie like Star Wars or some movie set in the 23rd century. But this is our 21st century. It was started at the last century, we’re going — got to go forward. For example, one thing that concerns me is, I mean, AI is going to mean some changes for sure. That means you may have one job in this current world, with AI you’ll have another job, a better paying job with more satisfaction. We have to get there. People are scared, “I’m losing my job, I go through these changes,” and that’s going to happen. The other concern I have for my generation is, Jerry remembers a movie called The Space Odyssey 21st Century. And there was a robot, an AI robot in this space station named HAL. He was just a red light. And HAL got this self-survival instinct as a computer and learned — wanted to kill all the astronauts. That can’t happen with AI, it’s just a program. But to get a lot of people my age — it’s smart people have really got it hard against AI like Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, and both have said, “apocalypse, end of society.”

国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)：好吧，他们认为这只是将来的事情。 来自某些电影，例如《星球大战》或23世纪的电影。 但这是我们的21世纪。 它始于上个世纪，我们要前进-必须前进。 例如，我关心的一件事是，人工智能肯定会意味着一些变化。 这意味着您可能在当前世界中只有一份工作，而使用AI则将有另一份工作，一份薪水更高，满意度更高的工作。 我们必须到达那里。 人们感到害怕，“我正在失业，经历了这些变化”，而这种情况将会发生。 我这一代人所关心的另一个问题是，杰里还记得一部名为《 21世纪太空漫游》的电影。 在这个空间站中有一个机器人，即AI机器人，名为HAL。 他只是一个红灯。 哈尔(HAL)通过计算机获得了这种自我生存的本能，并学会了-想杀死所有宇航员。 AI不可能做到这一点，它只是一个程序。 但是要吸引很多人，就像斯蒂芬·霍金，埃隆·马斯克一样，聪明的人真的很难对付AI，他们俩都说：“末日，社会的终结。”

Congressman Pete Olson:I appreciate that. It’s a good opinion, but it’s fear. And here are the facts: AI’s only programmed by human beings. We keep out our biases, as Jerry mentioned, keep out the information, learn how it’s being tracked, we can calm these fears and step on forward.

国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)：非常感谢。 这是一个好意见，但令人恐惧。 这是事实：AI只能由人类编程。 正如Jerry所说，我们保持偏见，保持信息，了解信息的跟踪方式，我们可以平息这些恐惧并继续前进。

Congressman Jerry McNerney:I have heard comments from other members that they’re afraid, they’ve given me reports about how AI is going to displace people and how it’s going to become dominant. And I think those are based on irrational fears. But I think people have seen what automation does. It improves society in some ways, it creates opportunities but also displaces people and I think that’s the biggest fear that I’m seeing. In fact, in my district, The Brookings Institute has identified as one of the most susceptible to AI job displacement. So, the city of Stockton, which is my biggest city, has created an AI policy, an AI strategy so that we can prepare ourselves and prepare our citizens to be in a position to take advantage of AI as these changes come about.

国会议员杰里·麦克纳尼(Jerry McNerney)：我听过其他成员的评论，他们担心，他们给了我有关AI如何取代人们以及它将如何成为主导的报告。 我认为这些是基于非理性的恐惧。 但是我认为人们已经看到了自动化的作用。 它以某种方式改善了社会，创造了机会，但也使人们流离失所，我认为这是我所看到的最大的恐惧。 实际上，在我所在的地区，布鲁金斯学会(Brookings Institute)已确定是最容易发生AI工作流离失所的地方之一。 因此，我最大的城市斯托克顿市制定了一项人工智能政策，即一项人工智能战略，以便随着这些变化的来临，我们可以做好准备，并使我们的公民有能力利用人工智能。

James Kotecki:One thing that seems to have accelerated a lot of futuristic timelines is COVID-19. Congressman Olson, starting with you, what do you think that COVID-19 has done to the AI trajectory and has it affected the way that you think the government should approach that issue?

詹姆斯·科特奇(James Kotecki)：似乎加速了许多未来派时间表的一件事是COVID-19。 国会议员奥尔森(Olson)，首先从您开始，您认为COVID-19对AI的发展轨迹有何影响，是否影响了您认为政府应对该问题的方式？

Congressman Pete Olson:Well, I’m from Houston, Texas, space USA. So my answer to that question is, three, two, one, lift off! The rocket is flying! COVID-19 has opened a door to people to be exposed to AI. Mostly the healthcare industry, you hear that over and over. Our doctors, our nurses are starting to get little piece of AI involved, their diagnosis, their treatments. That’s good for the country overall, but first of all, it helps us get control of this virus.

国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)：好，我来自美国德克萨斯州休斯顿。 所以我对这个问题的回答是，三，二，一，升空！ 火箭正在飞行！ COVID-19为人们接触AI打开了一扇门。 通常是医疗保健行业，您一遍又一遍地听到。 我们的医生和护士开始很少涉及AI，诊断和治疗。 这对整个国家都有好处，但首先，它可以帮助我们控制该病毒。

Congressman Jerry McNerney:What COVID, the pandemic, has done is sort of accelerated automation in ways that we’re probably not really prepared for. So I think it’s accelerated the need for folks like Pete and I to get involved and make sure that members of Congress are ready and produce legislation to make the automation a positive experience for Americans instead of a negative experience.

国会议员杰里·麦克纳尼(Jerry McNerney)：大流行病COVID所做的是某种加速自动化，其方式我们可能并没有真正做好准备。 因此，我认为像Pete这样的人和我参与其中并确保国会议员已准备好并制定立法以使自动化对美国人来说是积极的经历而不是消极的经历，这正在加速发展。

James Kotecki:Congressman Pete Olson, Republican from Texas. Congressman Jerry McNerney, Democrat from California. The co-chairs of the Congressional Artificial Intelligence Caucus. Thank you both for joining us today on Machine Meets World.

詹姆斯·科特奇(James Kotecki)：得克萨斯州共和党议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)。 加州民主党众议员杰里·麦克纳尼(Jerry McNerney)。 国会人工智能核心小组的联合主席。 谢谢你们俩今天加入Machine Meets World。

Congressman Jerry McNerney:Thanks, James.

众议员杰里·麦克纳尼(Jerry McNerney)：谢谢詹姆斯。

Congressman Pete Olson:Thanks, James.

国会议员皮特·奥尔森(Pete Olson)：谢谢詹姆斯。

James Kotecki:I’ve been your host, James Kotecki, and that is what happens when Machine Meets World.

詹姆斯·科特奇(James Kotecki)：我一直是你的主持人，詹姆斯·科特奇(James Kotecki)，这就是《机器遇见世界》时发生的事情。